Although we are instinctively turned off by any development that has special characters in the name ("Be@William", are you a .com?), we were certainly attracted to the low price per sq ft of this well-timed conversion in one of our favorite areas of the Financial District. Because sales started here in 2007, this building managed to avoid the fate of our favorite zombie condo 20 Pine and has actually managed to sell most of it's units.
What's left over however, is tough to be @, as we wandered through dark unit after dark unit wishing that some sun would also be @ William. Five of the listed units (and we think actually more than that) are the ominous "H" line, long, dark units in the back of the building with two tiny windows that each face directly on to a soulless neighboring office building. Although they are priced attractively at under $700 per sq ft, we found it hard to imagine ourselves living in what looks like an Ikea showroom, with the same cheap fixtures and warehouse feel.
The white on white kitchen located inconveniently along a wall in the middle of the unit along with the inability to install a W/D (huh?) annoyed us even further. In fact, when we asked the icy cold Corcoran agent about installing a W/D (a standard question for us, particularly in a new conversion), she responded by saying that the 90% of people who already bought units were "happy without one" (whatever).
On the bright side (literally), it looks like there might be some price movement in the few units that actually are liveable here, namely the gorgeous West-facing 2BR, 2BA "A" line. These units face William St. (the only direction in this building where the sun is @) and we note with some level of excitement that one recently sold for just $875,000. While not a bargain, it's a step in the right direction.
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Agreed. We went to an open house and this is a nice community of owners. In addition to the A's, which have sunlight and face William St., the B's also have 3 windows that face William St. There is no sunlight anywhere in FiDi b/c of the short sighted building code. As for $875,000 for a 2 bdrm./2 ba. with almost 1,200 sq. ft. not a bargain?!? That's less than $760/sq. ft. in Manhattan?!? I'd take that any day of the week, and twice on Sundays. Is a W/D hookup worth $240/sq. ft. or more to you?!?
We've also heard good things about the "B" line. There are a couple of those available on higher floors, so we're hoping to see some price movement.
On the bargain issue, I wouldn't take $760/sq ft in 90 William any day of the week, not even on Sunday. If the rumors are true, a unit just sold at 20 Pine (which is a better building with way more amenities - including that W/D - than 90 William)for $600/sq ft. That would put the NY market to around 2003-2004 levels which is still somewhat high but much closer to where we think it will settle. 90 William should be trading at $500 per sq ft.
http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/05/is-sale-at-20-pine-1505-finally-going.html
My g/f and I also went by 20 Pine and almost put an offer in on a unit 802, which is now "in contract" as of 4/25.
The W/D that you refer to is terrible - I'd personally rather not have it at all. It's a useless W/D that is installed in the kitchen ... which is a joke. I had a self ventilating dryer in my old apartment … good luck drying anything besides a wet napkin.
So you have a Miele cook top with the smallest Sub Zero on a strip that is barely useable to cook. We were planning on another $10k to install an island, to gain some useable space in the kitchen.
The so called "amenities" are "fashionable" but are not practical (e.g., rain shower, no handles on cabinets, etc.). Moreover, you think 90 William is dark, 20 Pine Apt. #802 faces Chase Manhattan Plaza, and totally dark all of the time. We went there in the morning and afternoon ... total eclipse and the dark interiors make the place seem even more cavernous.
Personally, I’d rather live in an A or B unit at 90 William St. We have our eyes on one of those units, and think that if we can approach a price equal to that of the people that bought for $760/sq. ft., I would rather take that deal. By the way, did you notice that those ppl have a $600k mortgage??? That means they came up with over 30% d/p … maybe that’s what sealed the deal. Do you have any visibility as to whether that was an arms length sale?!? In other words, did the sponsor at 90 William St. sell to some related party?!? I saw the sale in ACRIS and it seems genuine.
As for $500/sq. ft. for a genuine 2 bdrm/2 bathroom in Manhattan, I think unless the U.S. economy collapses entirely, you’re dreaming. Fiscal and monetary stimuli are being pushed through the system at an unprecedented rate, and the Chinese and Indian economies are recovering faster than expected because of the revival of their domestic consumption. You can say hello to inflation coming soon to an area near you, and where will you keep your currency?!? In gold??? I got 2 words for you my friend, “real estate.”
90 William St. is a great building with practical amenities. If we can get an A or B unit for around $760/sq. ft. and get the sponsor to kick in the transfer taxes they are supposed to pay anyway, we’d be on board. As for 20 Pine, we had the doorman ask us to talk to an owner that bought a 1 bdrm for $699k, I think the most I’d give the guy now is $400k.
Honestly, I don't think the financial transaction for #10A is that shocking. The apartment sold for around 11% off of it's most recent ask, which is certainly not unreasonable given the current market.
The sponsor could care less how much of a down payment someone has as long as they have a lender that is willing to finance the rest. I would interpret the huge down payment to go the other way actually - most likely, the lender required it in order to make the loan, which means the building could be in more trouble than we think.
As for the $500/sq ft comment - sure, it could happen. Much of the fiscal "stimulus" actually discourages bank lending and as we all know, excessive lending fueled the Manhattan real estate boom, not any kind of fundamentals. If you look at NYC property prices/income ratios, they are still phenomenally higher than other metropolitan areas and higher than their run rates. Add to that that real estate typically recovers 1-2 years after the stock market does and the strict 20% down requirements of lenders, PLUS a phenomenal rental market (who the heck wants to buy when you look at all of the amazing rent deals out there) and you're pretty much looking at a continuing decline in real estate values.
If the U.S. economy collapses entirely, we will not be at $500/sq ft in Manhattan, we will be at $100/sq ft, with people giving you the keys to their apartment in exchange for your willingness to pay their $2+ per sq ft maintenance charges. It happened in the late 80s. Is it going to happen again? Hopefully not, but can $500/sq ft happen again? Heck yeah, we say.
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